S&B Geothermal

S&B Geothermal has gone out of business.

Terrible. System was a lemon and our back yard is still a mess after 6 years. Email me at [email protected] if you'd like to see our new home heating/cooling bills. Inaccurate projections and lack of customer service.

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.While I appreciate their efforts to build on the previous plumbers creation of piping on top of my hot water heater, I really regret they didn't use the two side plugs on the side of the water heater which specifically are labeled, "for heating connections only."

The return lines to the in floor heat exchanger dump 72 degree water into the top of the hot water heater diluting the heat of the hot water system.  Use of the side connections to the hot water heater would've returned the 72 degree water to the BOTTOM of the hot water heater and resulted in better hot water efficiency and not disrupting the temp of the hot water; depending on if the system was engaged in heating the floor or idle.  Also it would've eliminated the problems I've had with my hot water recirc pump creating a straining noise on the recirc piping check valve (it makes the flow go backwards.).  I would've expected people with this much experience in this field to recognize and recommend a better course of action regarding the piping of this system.  After all this was my first time doing this and I was relying on the professionals who've turn many setup to advise me on the best way to pipe this system.

Most infuriating, the guy who runs this company has not returned my calls asking for additional help (either under warranty or just charging me - I just need a supply and a return pipe rerouted to the side of the hot water heater).  So......NO POST INSTALLATION SERVICE IS AVAILABLE FROM THIS COMPANY!!!!! - at least not for me.  Finally, their original estimate of the just was about 850 bucks, but because they were unable to anticipate problems with the piping setup, they had to return twice which resulted in additional costs.   I PAID IT for the two additional trips  (1300 Bucks total) because I wanted to establish a relationship with this company should I need service on this system in the future.  What a waste of money.  If they had used the ports of the hot water heater intended for radiant system heating the job could've been covered for the original quote of $850.  Now I'll probably have to pay someone two to four hundred bucks to reroute piping!!!  Pretty disappointed in these guys and would never recommend using them especially since they never return their calls.

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We had originally contracted with S+B in July. They initially proposed a 60000 BTU single stage system for $2000 less, but we opted for the 2-stage alternative because it is slightly more efficient, and has a blower which ramps up to speed slowly rather than coming on with a bang (something which friends had called out as an issue with their own systems).
S+B was the middle-ranking of three bids + we visited a satisfied reference customer in our neighborhood. (We were not comfortable with the other two bidders since neither properly specified the equipment + work they intended to provide, nor provided references, and it was not clear that either knew very much about geothermal systems)
The install was delayed 2 months by the government shutdown, since we couldn't get a state drilling permit. An additional hiccup was that the person initially handling the paperwork left the company in the interim, without filing for a city permit, which is also required in Edina. This led to us being served with a stop work order the day after they started drilling - but this was cleared up with a couple of phone calls + and additional two or three days wait.
The drilling was subcontracted to Dedicated Geothermal. I was initially concerned that the spacing between the wells was less than the 20' which I had read was standard for this type of installation... This has not (so far at least) turned out to be an issue.
I had also been slightly anxious over the sizing of the system - 55000 BTU replacing a 95000 BTU gas furnace, but it has proved quite adequate over the past two years - the electric heat has not been required even on the coldest days, unless the set temperature is raised by more than 4 degrees at once, in which case the thermostat will turn it on to bring the temperature up more quickly.
Once the wells were done the rest of the install was quick and pretty much painless and we were up and running within a couple of days.
Only two minor issues have surfaced since then, both of which were pretty obvious and didn't require a service call; the condensate drain pipe clogged after a year or so, causing water to pool under the evaporator and eventually leak out onto the floor. It also took us almost a year to notice that a duct immediately above the blower had inadvertently been blocked with a sheet of foam insulation, causing inadequate airflow to a vent in the bathroom above.
All in all, we're happy with the system. Running costs are slightly lower than we expected, we have no trouble heating the house and both the ambient noise + air quality are a big improvement on our previous gas furnace. Cooling capacity is formidable - way more than we need, in fact, since it is sized to meet the larger heating requirement.

As part of a multi-year plan to become more energy efficient we had S&B Geothermal replace our 1992 A/C unit, our 1980 gas furnace and our 1958 (yes, 1958!) hot water heater. My husband was familiar with the benefits of geothermal from a former business up in Canada so after checking out a few of the companies in the Twin Cities, we decided to go with Sara and Bill (that's the S&B in their company name). Bill has been doing this for many years. At the time of this report there is one other report on S&B Geothermal which is quite negative. Our experience was anything but! For example, even though we were slated for installation in mid-October, when our hot water heater started to not produce enough hot water consistently (I guess after 50+ years it got tired), Sara had a crew come in and install the hot water heater in advance of the geothermal. With the tax incentives it took a few weeks to get to the front of the queue and things were delayed when some of their crews got hit with the flu and the rains made things too wet to dig, but they came and did the job in a single day. The "job" involved excavating our backyard and laying in 4 "slinkys". Since the yard had yet to be landscaped, we opted to go the less expensive slinky route. But, they also do vertical and horizontal drilling. They removed the A/C unit (outside) and the old gas hot water heater and furnace (inside). They even hauled away two old clothes line poles for us! They installed the furnace, tested the slinky tubing system and hooked up the system. They coordinated with their preferred electrical contractor, Shortstop Electric, who were great and VERY reasonable. Everyone was very considerate, careful and clean. They left the basement clean and worked around our "no shoes" home. But, the service didn't stop there. The next day Bill came and we agreed that the fan was set too high (and too noisy). Bill adjusted the airflow on-the-spot and offered to put in a few "soft" baffles in a few of the air ducts to make the system quiet. The baffles were installed (at no charge!) which was great and did the trick. Next, Sara sent us the Xcel Energy rebate form (filled in with all the details), so sending it in just required 5 minutes of our time to add some minor information, sign the form and put it in the mail. So, I definitely recommend S&B Geothermal to anyone who is thinking about making the investment. We're absolutely delighted. And no, we're not related to them in any way. One thing I would recommend to anyone considering replacing their furnace is to have your duct work cleaned BEFORE you replace your furnace. (I strongly recommend Duct Hunters.) We did ours after and it was ok, but I think it makes more sense to clean the ducts before you put in a new system. And FYI, the Econar heat pump comes with a washable, lifetime filter...so if anyone uses a 25x25x1 filter...we've got three of them... We haven't had the system in place long enough to know how much we'll save on our heating and cooling bills, but the numbers on our electric bill look quite promising.

Installation is complete but system is noisy, expensive to operate, and does not keep up in extreme cold. Contractor had to be reminded to return and install humidifier per contract.